S01_E11 - Moms! The wisest people we know...

Speaker 1: 0:03

Welcome to the healthy matters podcast with Dr. David Hilton, primary care physician and acute care hospitalist at Hennepin healthcare in downtown Minneapolis, where we cover the latest in health healthcare, and what matters to you. And now here's your host, Dr. David Hilton.

Speaker 2: 0:20

Hey everybody. And welcome back to the podcast. I'm your host, Dr. David Hilton. And this is episode 11 of the healthy matters podcast. And I'm really excited about this show may is the month of mothers. And so today we are gonna have three experts in the field of motherhood, who are those experts? Well, they're moms. We're gonna talk to them about their experience with childbirth and just being a mom. So three mothers, a whole lot of wisdom here. So let's get to it. My first guest is BOLO Diallo. Young BOLO is a very dear friend of mine and a colleague at Hennepin healthcare here in downtown Minneapolis. That's where I met her in her capacity as a nurse practitioner in the department of family medicine. BOLO is a mother. She has two children, which I'll let her tell you about, first of all, tell me just real briefly, where are you from in Senegal?

Speaker 3: 1:09

So, uh, I'm from the Northern part of Senegal, which is, um, canal. It's a three in the Northern part of Senegal, very dry and hot.

Speaker 2: 1:17

And so you grew up in canal. Tell me a little bit, what was your own childbirth like in canal? Well,

Speaker 3: 1:25

Um, I mean, I, I don't know, but I just heard you don't

Speaker 2: 1:29

Remember. Oh, you don't remember.

Speaker 3: 1:31

I wish I could, but I don't have that power. But, um, according to what I heard, um, I was born at home. We have doulas that come and help, uh, that helped my mom and she was pretty young. And, uh, the difference is that my mom had support systems. So, uh, grandmas and aunties and uncles everybody's around and everybody was involved in helping. So I guess her experience is not as hard as if she was here alone.

Speaker 2: 2:00

So when you had your kids here, it was a little bit different, right?

Speaker 3: 2:03

It was very different, uh, because I did not have the support system that my mom had, although I was fortunate to have good friends and, uh, my husband's family, but it's still different, uh, than my mom's experience.

Speaker 2: 2:16

So canal is a smaller town that, that is a relatively modest town. It's it doesn't have lots of modern. Um, although there's a decent hospital there, but you were born in your home. I have been to your home. Was it the home I was in?

Speaker 3: 2:29

No, it was a different,

Speaker 2: 2:30

It was a different home. So, so was there a whole group standing around or what is it like? What is the, the traditions around childbirth for Senegalese women?

Speaker 3: 2:40

Um, you know, every area is different. Um, if you are in da car, it may be different than when you are in the rural area in da car. People can go to the hospitals and even, uh, canal. It has changed since I was born, but the births at home are very private. So, uh, women don't want everybody around them watching. It's usually, uh, the woman and the doula.

Speaker 2: 3:03

So tell me about the doulas in Africa. What do they do?

Speaker 3: 3:06

So these are not formally trained people. They are traditionally, um, just experienced and knowing and wisdom. So this is an older woman in the area that knows how to do those things for some reason, and comes and coaches, the woman, she's

Speaker 2: 3:24

Done it a few times. Yes. Like she's spended a few of

Speaker 3: 3:26

These. Yeah. And they know what to do. And, um, they just followed the process. But, uh, I, I mean, I, I, I don't know at that time, what, how many birth were not successful, but I would imagine, uh, if something goes wrong, then that can be it.

Speaker 2: 3:44

Yeah. It can be quite dangerous there because there aren't the backup resources, but there's something to be said for your communities surrounding you and expert women, helping out new moms. There's something nice about that.

Speaker 3: 3:57

Yep. And after the woman gives birth, um, she doesn't have to do anything. Somebody may hold your child after your nurse, so you can go to sleep and everybody's bringing food. You don't have to cook. Some will come and give them massage. So you don't have to do anything for like a month or two. It's like, uh, it's called a birthing period or something and you just eat and sleep and be with your baby.

Speaker 2: 4:21

That's really nice. And you know, one of the things I did, I found it's obvious when you go to tenol, um, the kindness and the joy and the, um, hospitality of Senegalese people was as high as I've ever seen anywhere in the world. So that doesn't surprise me, that people rally around new moms.

Speaker 3: 4:40

Yes. And you're absolutely right. I'm not biased, but

Speaker 2: 4:43

<laugh>

Speaker 3: 4:44

Going back to the boing mm-hmm<affirmative> in, in, in canal and in Senegal in general, when I grow up, uh, when I, uh, notice and, uh, witness how, uh, people, you know, women die from giving birth and babies, don't make it. And that's what inspired, uh, the nonprofit C to help, uh, women and children.

Speaker 2: 5:07

So little aside here, um, everybody listening to the podcast, check out Chila it's C E L L a

Speaker 3: 5:17

L.g.org,

Speaker 2: 5:17

G C E L L a L O G. That means what, what does the word mean?

Speaker 3: 5:22

Chal is health in Fulani.

Speaker 2: 5:23

It's Fiani for health. And so that is the nonprofit organization that, uh, that BOLO has started with your help. Well, well, I had, I played a minor role. She is the visionary leader of a new nonprofit. Uh, and so check that out, listeners chila.org. Okay. You have two children of your own. Yes. I bet the experience was a little different. Tell us about your kids.

Speaker 3: 5:46

Um, it's very different. Um, I have two beautiful children, 12 and nine. And, uh, my 12 years old is a boy and my nine years old is a girl. And, uh, my 12 years old is hair down syndrome. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and, um, they're very sweet. Um, I mean, I'm not biased, but

Speaker 2: 6:07

No. Yeah, no,

Speaker 3: 6:08

They are very sweet. I never see them fight at all. Um, they just get along very well. They happen to be like that, but, um, it's very different. The experience is very different for me than it would've been if I was in Senegal because the two different cultures my husband is from here actually. So we have two different cultures and I have to speak English to him because he doesn't speak my language. So it's difficult for me to, to teach my kids my language, uh, because I have to switch back and forth and sometimes I just get lazy and we all speak

Speaker 2: 6:42

English. Are you trying to teach your two children? Um, Fulani?

Speaker 3: 6:46

Yes. They know the basics. Um, I, not as much as I wanted them to speak, but they know most of the basics. And also my daughter is going to a French immersion, so she speaks French. Um, but I'm doing what my best, trying to even take them back so they can learn

Speaker 2: 7:03

So they can learn. So you are, you might be biased to your own children, but I have met both your son and your daughter, and they indeed are wonderful, wonderful children.

Speaker 3: 7:13

Oh, they love

Speaker 2: 7:14

You.<laugh> they are just wonderful children. How has it been for you being from your background? You came to a new culture, you spoke different languages. You're a woman of color in a white dominant society. You're a mother of a special needs child, and you're also a professional, uh, nurse practitioner at a hospital. So you're, and you're caring for all these other people, ho and, and then you start at a nonprofit. How do you balance all those things and, uh, especially with regards to your children, how do you balance all that?

Speaker 3: 7:47

Yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's a big challenge, but, you know, um, you just have to make it work. I have a very, uh, supportive husband who would support me on anything and is there to help. And also, um, I used to have his mom around who, who, who used to really help me like a mom, uh, when I need, you know, to be somewhere or something. But unfortunately she passed away, but my, we were able to spend, uh, most of my kids years with her, it was just two years ago or three years ago since she passed. Um, it's challenging because I don't have my family here. And it's very, uh, in Senegal, it's very common that you don't even see your kids when you are around family, because everybody is involved. Everybody's helping here, you're on your own. And, um, you have to be able to pay your babysitter or daycare to be able to work, to be able to do other things. Like I said, I, I, I feel like, uh, going to the healthcare, being a pro a, a caretaker or a provider just prepared me for, for my child. And, um, it's just natural and I'm lucky for him to be healthy health wise. It's just different challenges, you know, day to, to, to, to be able to function and to, you know, in life, but otherwise, um, he's a very smart guy and very loving, and I'm just so fortunate to have him and his sister. And, um, like I said, it's balancing, balancing and listening to my body and knowing when to slow down or when to take a break that, and then when to do self care, I do value those things.

Speaker 2: 9:31

Yeah. That that's insightful Bo you know, is child rearing parenting different here, uh, in this culture, from what you're used to, like, I don't know, discipline or the way you interact with your kids is that, how does that compare?

Speaker 3: 9:46

Um, it's very different. So, uh, to me, I wanna take the best of both cultures mm-hmm<affirmative> to use for my kids. And it's very challenging. The way child's rearing is done in Senegal is a little different over there in Senegal. Um, parents can yell, can spank, you know, I mean, right. You know, it doesn't mean that they, they don't love your kids. And it's just how, how they correct them. Uh, most kids will grow up and say, I'm glad my mom slapped me to not do that thing, because I know it was wrong right. For me to do. Right. And, um, for me, I, I don't agree with that, you know, uh, but then here I, don't also, uh, I'm challenged, but like kids talking back to their parents or, um, you know, disrespecting, you know, that also is not okay because when you are like too soft and, and just like love DBI, and some kids may just take it as, you know, uh, not appreciating, uh, what's going on, but I'm trying to, to be firm, but then not to use the style that's used back home. But then I, to, to want my kids to be respectful to me, or to any adult or authority that, you know, in the, in, in a very appropriate way,

Speaker 2: 11:06

You do have that you, that two cultures to draw on and take the best of both, because nobody gets as instruction manual on hunter, raise your kids. Do they?

Speaker 3: 11:14

It's, it's, that's very true. It's, it's very hard. Uh, that, that's why, when you said expert, I'm like what expert<laugh> No, um, there is, there is no manual. There is no school. You just do what works for your family and, you know, the values that you want in your family trying to put that your kids and that's, that's the key.

Speaker 2: 11:39

Well, I really enjoyed talking to you. If you had, when in closing, what advice would you give moms?

Speaker 3: 11:45

It's, um, being a parent is, uh, uh, learning new things every day. And every stage of life is different from baby to whenever. So trying to adjust, like, you know, that'll change at a different stage. So you have to adjust your, your mothering style and you have to adjust to that stage. And also it takes a lot of patience and just, you know, a self-reflection

Speaker 2: 12:11

That's so lovely. That is such wise perspective. Now I'm talking to BOLO Diallo, young, who is a nurse practitioner at Hennepin healthcare, where I work in a mother of two. And we've been talking about her life experience in BOLO. You are I've off. I've often said you're one of the most visionary people I've ever met. Uh, I would follow Bo's leadership around the world. And in fact, I have followed you around the world because you just inspire so many people. And so thank you so much for being here today and talking about your experience as a mom. I really appreciate you being

Speaker 3: 12:42

Here and, and thank you so much, Dr. Hedon. I really appreciate you. I appreciate you and your wife and I, I appreciate the support that you have given me, and yes, maybe I did some leadership, but then you were on the background pushing me and supporting me. So I couldn't do it without you. And I appreciate you. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 13:03

Thank you, my friend, you for having me. Thank you. We're gonna take a quick break. And when we come back, we're gonna talk to another mom. So stay with us.

Speaker 1: 13:11

You're listening to the healthy matters podcast with Dr. David Hilton, have a question or a comment for the doctor become a part of our show by reaching out to us. Give us a call at six one two eight seven three talk that's 6 1 2 8 7 3 8 2 5 5. And now let's get back to more healthy conversation

Speaker 2: 13:31

And we're back. My next guest is Mandy Hoffman. Mandy is a new mother having delivered her first born son just four months ago. She's also a labor and delivery nurse and a certified nurse midwife. So she has all kinds of perspective, not only from the professional side, but it's awfully fresh in her mind from the mother's side. Mandy, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 4: 13:54

Thank you for having me. It's

Speaker 2: 13:56

Good to have you here. You are a new mom. I am. Tell me about it. Wow.

Speaker 4: 14:02

Well, I was telling you when I saw you this morning, I'm gonna try not to get emotional. I feel like I'm still riding those hormonal waves.<laugh> um, yeah, so I'm a brand new mom. I gave birth to my son four months ago. I'm already crying. This is gonna be a problem. We're gonna, we're gonna have to cut this out.

Speaker 2: 14:22

There are a whole bunch of people who are, who are gonna be Ah-huh. I totally know. Yeah. Your son was born four months ago and just in full disclosure, your son is my great, what is Jasper? He is my, my first cousin once removed because Mandy is my niece. Yes. Okay. So

Speaker 4: 14:37

He's just the family, baby. He's the first, first family baby on this side. So he's very loved, very spoiled. Um, he is just the most amazing thing ever. I'm still processing. I don't, I haven't gotten out very much or spoken about it too much, so it feels very fresh still.

Speaker 2: 14:57

Um, and so we thought when, when to get you out, talking about your birth experience yeah. Of like four months ago, we thought you'd do it to a zillion people.

Speaker 4: 15:04

<laugh>

Speaker 2: 15:04

Right. On a podcast.

Speaker 4: 15:05

This is the way to do it.

Speaker 2: 15:06

Exactly. So his name is Jasper.

Speaker 4: 15:08

Yes. So Jasper is my son. Um, he was born in the water at the Minnesota birth center, which is where I am currently a nurse. So I've been a, a labor and delivery nurse for almost four years now, um, and had my baby at the place where I work. Um, and also as a student midwife, I was there, did my clinicals, so caught a few babies at, in the same room where I had my own son. So, you know, speaking about this, it, it was just a very surreal experience, um, being a labor and delivery nurse, and also as a, a new baby midwife being on the other end of things, of going through pregnancy birth, the postpartum period, new mommyhood, new parenthood, all myself has just been kind of, kind of mind blowing. It's kind of wild. I feel like that I ever gave anyone advice before I went through this experience myself, because now that I have it's, it's a game changer. It's, it's totally different to go through it, um, on my own. And, um, I'm learning as I go, there are things that you don't learn in school until you go

Speaker 2: 16:20

Through it's whole bunch. You don't learn in school. Isn't that right, man. And so you are on this podcast, you're the newest mom. It's been four months. It's the year 2022. And you delivered in a resource rich city and country, uh, in Minnesota. And you chose to deliver Jasper, although you didn't know that that was his name at the time that who was, was gonna, you hadn't met him yet. Mm-hmm<affirmative> you chose to deliver using a nurse midwife program and you said in a tub.

Speaker 4: 16:52

Yes.

Speaker 2: 16:53

What was that like, tell our listeners who maybe aren't so familiar with that.

Speaker 4: 16:58

Yeah, so I, I feel very lucky, privileged, blessed that I have been exposed to many beautiful birthing experiences situations. I've had a lot of exposure, um, to the birth world and in the twin cities, we do have a very vibrant birth community, um, which I know is not the case in many parts of the country, in many parts of the world. Um, in the twin cities, in particular, we have a very strong nurse midwifery presence. And I, of course, being a midwife myself knew that midwifery care was just just the way it was going to be, unless there was some reason health wise or medical wise that I would not be able to do that. Um, so nurse midwives, I guess I can explain a little bit are they're trained birth experts. Um, and they care for low risk pregnancies, low RO low risk birth processes, um, and are very highly trained, skilled medical professionals to manage pregnancy birth postpartum. And they really honor just the physiological process of birth, um, and really honor just the normal birth process. And then of course, when things don't go as planned, they're trained to manage those medical situations as well. So I chose to give birth at the medic, the Minnesota birth center, um, was kind of hoping that I would be able to have a water birth because I've seen it many, many times and it just looked appealing to me. Like it would be something that I would like, but I also know sometimes in labor things don't go as planned, but I ended up delivering him in the tub, my husband, Ryan. So your nephew was able to kinda catch Jasper's head<laugh> and then we had, so

Speaker 2: 18:57

Is he like in the tub with you? Is he like, or

Speaker 4: 18:59

Is Ryan not in the tub

Speaker 2: 19:00

He leaning over? So you're in like, is it isn't like a little bathtub or is it

Speaker 4: 19:05

AUP? It's a large bathtub. Yeah. Um, and I, I was very lucky, you know, this was my first pregnancy. Um, I didn't have any complications, a very, uh, uneventful pregnancy, which

Speaker 2: 19:18

Is, is there such a thing?<laugh>,

Speaker 4: 19:21

I mean, the little things, you know, the nausea, the fatigue,

Speaker 2: 19:23

The little things, but it went off as

Speaker 4: 19:25

Planned. Yeah. Um, so everything was relatively normal. Can't complain. Um, I was preparing for like a, you know, a 14 hour, 24 hour labor because I have been at many labors for first time. Oh. Thanking people. And I was prepared for that. So I, you know, we had our bags packed, I packed snacks. I wrote out my labor affirmations. Um, but I ended up having a very fast labor, um, didn't get to use any of those tools or snacks or any of those things, which I'm grateful for now. Um, had a very fast labor once I got to the birth center hopped into the tub, used some nitrous oxide, which I feel like was, uh, very helpful for me to get through those contractions. And Ryan was kind of just leaning against the side of the tub. Um, once Jasper's head started coming, I don't know this is, I work in the birth world. So I'm like talking about this stuff is very normal. Right. Um, our midwife, Nicole, who is one of my colleagues and friends, uh, told Ryan to get his gloves on and here we go. Um, so he helped deliver the head and then she kinda helped stepped in once his shoulders were birthed. And then I reached down and got to pull him out of the water. And you, you reached now, the tears are coming,

Speaker 2: 20:46

That you reached down and pulled him out. Wow. What did that feel like? What, what was your, what was, what do you remember? What was your emotions worth?

Speaker 4: 20:54

Oh, I, I remember every piece of that. I mean, I still think about it every day. Just how, what a wild, amazing experience I will never ever forget it. Um, this is where I get emotional. It, it just changes you mm-hmm<affirmative>, it changes you. Um, and it still feels very fresh. So, and it was just, it was a beautiful experience. We had amazing care, amazing support, listening to Bo's experience when she talks about in, in senical women and birthing people are surrounded by support. Um, I felt that, and I know a lot of people do not get that experience. It was intimate. It was, um, calm, kind of, it was, I felt safe, supported, and I think the midwife remodel of care really honors that. And, um, being able to experience that myself feels just so special to me. I think I was prepared for the worst, um, hoping for the best. It's just an incredible experience. It, it changes you. Do you

Speaker 2: 21:58

Think that, that your own experience of delivering Jasper just four months ago, how will that affect your future career in helping other women? Yeah. Or what do you hope to bring as a nurse midwife, to other women who are in labor and in experiencing childbirth?

Speaker 4: 22:15

Yeah, it's had, I think it'll have a huge impact on my life. Moving forward as a nurse midwife, as a fellow human, to other people who are going through that same process. Um, I feel like I, I joined this, this club of this new understanding of what it feels like to be a parent, be a mother experiencing growing a human for nine, 10 months and witnessing just life. It it's, it's incredible. Um, I don't think that you have to have a baby or be a parent to be a good medical provider. Um, I think that you can still be an expert on breastfeeding and birth if you haven't experienced it yourself, but having gone through it myself, I think just has brought it to a, a new level of understanding of, uh, empathy, of compassion, of just being a little bit more at level with someone who's going through that similar experience, because I have a little bit of an more of an idea now. Um, there's still so many things I don't know, and I'm learning every day, but as I launch my midwifery career, I think this will make me a better midwife or just a more compassionate, empathetic, uh, caring individual with someone who is going through a process that I've experienced myself.

Speaker 2: 23:39

So there's a load of men listening to this, and I imagine a load of women as well. Most of us men are never gonna experience that growing a life inside of you. You said something like that. Uh, is it possible to put that into words at all? What's it like being pregnant? I mean, I mean, I mean really seriously physiologically or physically or emotionally, what is it like? You know, maybe you can't put that into words, but can you try, what's it like to grow a life inside of you? You it's

Speaker 4: 24:06

Just wild. Like I said, I had a fairly uneventful pregnancy, a normal pregnancy without complications, but being pregnant is very hard. It is exhausting. It takes a toll on you. It takes a long time.

Speaker 2: 24:22

It does take a long time. Doesn't it?

Speaker 4: 24:24

It's, it's a beautiful and difficult experience for sure. Physically, mentally, emotionally, but then for some reason, I feel like you kind of forget about all that once it's over. And you're like, what? It wasn't so bad.

Speaker 2: 24:37

Do you think the, yeah. Would women ever have a second kid if you had like the, if you had the vivid memory,

Speaker 4: 24:43

Right. Your body just kind of puts that aside? I think. Um, but yeah, physically, it it's, it's a lot. Um, and mentally, and I was, you know, finishing up my midwifery program last spring and I was in my first trimester doing semester doing call shift and being up late at night and it, it takes a toll, but now I know that that was just preparing me for being up all night for being with

Speaker 2: 25:09

A newborn, with a newborn<laugh>. So you are a professional, uh, person as well. You've been in graduate school and you've been working, like you said, weird shifts. I mean, babies don't come nine to five, Monday to Friday. So you've been working. They come at night, they come at night. It seems like they're all coming at night.

Speaker 4: 25:25

Jasper was born at one in the morning. Just really

Speaker 2: 25:27

Typical. Yep. They're always at night. Yep. So you're doing all this, you're juggling a lot and it's a pandemic which must have made you nervous a little bit about like, COVID, you know, you know, do I, how do I, how do I balance that and balance a career and school and being pregnant that is frankly, I'm exhausted. Just listening to all the stuff you had to balance.

Speaker 4: 25:46

It was challenging, but I, I do have this new appreciation or new empathy for parents during this whole pandemic, because now that I have a newborn, um, especially in those early days, it was very isolating. I feel like that was a little bit more challenging than the pregnancy during the pandemic itself. Um, not having people come in and cuddle on our little newborn. Um, having people wear masks around him. It was, that was a challenge for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:16

That's a little different. Yeah. You know, that, that what other new parents had, because you know, and we're learning more all the time about the pandemic, but we're not sure like exactly. So I would imagine there's, you know, you're worried about every single solitary thing with this kid. And then, you know, as all new parents would be, and then to have that thrown on top. So I'd be remiss, um, on this, on this episode, you're the, you're the one who is still in the new parenting. You know, the other, the other moms on our episode here have, uh, older kids, either, uh, grade school kids or adult children, yours is four months old. Yeah. You are four months out from your first, first child. How's it going?<laugh>

Speaker 4: 26:54

I like to describe it as the hardest thing I've ever done, but the best thing I've ever done the postpartum period is a very interesting time. And now having gone through it myself, there were many, many challenges that I wasn't necessarily prepared for, but also it was a very beautiful time as well. Now that I'm four months out and kind of can reflect, um, physically, it, it was a lot mentally, emotionally the way it challenges, relationships, the way it challenges kind of your mental sanity. It, it was a lot and it still feels like that on some days, but it is the most beautiful thing ever just to see how your baby changes every day. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, you know, a smile one day or rolling over the next day and imitating what you do. It's, it's pretty incredible.

Speaker 2: 27:50

Okay. I'm asking all the moms on the show, if you could, what advice would you give any new mom or any mom? It doesn't have to be a new mom. Mom. Yeah. Or the men who are listening.

Speaker 4: 28:00

Yeah. I think for new moms, new parents just be gentle with yourself. I think we are bombarded with so many images and ideas of what motherhood is supposed to look like. Our parenthood is supposed to look like, be gentle with yourself. It, it takes a long time to grow a human. It takes a long time to recover after growing a human and every day you are evolving. Um, I'm a, a new person in one way. Um, but I'm also the same person just being gentle with yourself that this is a process, a never ending process. Um, and give yourself a lot of grace.

Speaker 2: 28:39

Wow. That is wise. Now I'm tearing up Mandy<laugh>. That is wise advice. I think wise advice I've been talking to Mandy Hoffman, who is a new mom, a labor and delivery nurse, and a certified nurse midwife. She's talking with us about, uh, what's it like to be a new mom, the mother of a four month old son. And so Mandy, you inspire me. I've watched you parenting in the last few months and it's inspiring you. It's like we, we often say there's no instruction manual, but while you have, you just have such a joyful blissful, mothering presence. And I am just so impressed by that. And, and, and Ryan too.<laugh>

Speaker 4: 29:18

Uh, I was gonna say, I shouldn't leave. Leave that out. Having a supportive partner, is it, it means so much. And I just wanna thank him. Also. We, we do a lot of learning together. Um, he's also a medical professional and wow. Do we learn a lot being new parents? It's, it's a wild ride and it's good to do it with someone.

Speaker 2: 29:38

Thanks for being here with us. Thanks for being here on the show. Thank you. We are gonna, we are gonna come back after a short break. We have one more mother, uh, one, who's an awfully special one to me. So stay tuned and we'll be right back.

Speaker 1: 29:53

You're listening to the healthy matters podcast with Dr. David Hilton, have a question or a comment for the doctor become a part of our show by reaching out to us@healthymattersathcmed.org. And now let's get back to more healthy conversation.

Speaker 2: 30:08

And my third guest is a special one for me and I didn't have to look very far for this one. I simply called my own mom who, uh, was game for being on the show today and talking about motherhood, uh, not only her own experiences, giving birth back in the fifties, but what it was like raising children and how that might be a little different than it is in today's world. And so ma thanks for being here.

Speaker 5: 30:30

My pleasure.

Speaker 2: 30:32

Uh, my mom's been listening to my various radio broadcasting, uh, ES escapades and this podcast. So she's, uh, one of my, uh, fans. Um, I think she kinda has to be, you know, you have to sort of be. And so she's well familiar with my various broadcasting activities, but I don't think I've ever had you on as a guest. So here we go. Now we've talked to two other moms today. Uh, one with grade school-aged kids. One who's been a mother for all of four months, uh, um, from a variety of backgrounds, you, you were all over the country delivering kids. Can you tell me what it was like? What were you thinking when you had my older sisters and then me back in the fifties and sixties, what was the childbirth experience like?

Speaker 5: 31:12

Uh, Dick and I were in ninth grade classes together in algebra, in Madison, Wisconsin. Dick went through the ROTC program and graduated from the university of Wisconsin in 19 56, 56,

Speaker 2: 31:28

When we don't hold it against him too much, that he's from Wisconsin.

Speaker 5: 31:31

So, uh, three months after he graduated, we took off for Biloxi, Mississippi to go into the air force. We were 21 years old.

Speaker 2: 31:41

You were kids.

Speaker 5: 31:42

Oh my gosh, you think, you know nothing at 21, but we thought we were pretty powerful. We could do this. And I was the first appointment at the new Keer air force base hospital, along with dozens of other women at 7:00 AM in the morning. And of course you didn't have your own doctor. You had, whoever was available. And so two months after we were there, our first daughter, Julie was born at Keer air force base, and we had no support. It was, and

Speaker 2: 32:08

You had moved from Madison. You had not been there long. Oh, you didn't know anybody

Speaker 5: 32:12

Didn't know anybody. And so we were very dependent on each other, which I think was very good for us. So we were, we were in Mississippi for six months while Dick was in school and we had our wonderful little baby and then we'd left there after six months stopped in Madison to show our baby off. And we took off for California where a second daughter, Amy was born. Now in both of those deliveries, dads were not allowed in labor rooms and certainly not delivery rooms. So mom's labored alone with the, so

Speaker 2: 32:43

You even in labor, no dad was off. He was off.

Speaker 5: 32:46

He was down

Speaker 2: 32:47

In the waiting in the coffee shop or the waiting room or the bar somewhere.

Speaker 5: 32:49

Yeah. Watching the ball games. Yeah. The nurses were very supportive, but we labored alone.

Speaker 2: 32:53

Okay. Did that feel weird because we've just talked to two other moms who in more recent times who, who didn't labor alone, was that weird? Did you think that was weird or was that just like the norm?

Speaker 5: 33:03

I thought it was a little bit hard because you didn't have anybody really to talk to the nurse would be in and out, but I, I knew nothing different. So that was just kind of what I did.

Speaker 2: 33:12

And you were all of 21.

Speaker 5: 33:13

I was 21 years old. What do you know what you, 21 years old. Right. So then we went to a hospital in California for when Amy was born and that was 17 months after Julie was born. And again, we had no other support system except one another, or the friends that we made in the air force mm-hmm<affirmative> and it was a wonderful time for us. We felt very strong in what we were doing, loved our babies. I loved the pregnancies and I had no morning sickness

Speaker 2: 33:40

Ever. You didn't have any of that. You always told me that you, that like you were all of 21, but that was not, you didn't think you were young, you were ready to go. We

Speaker 5: 33:48

Were, it was not uncommon back in the fifties to be married young. So then we moved back to Madison, Wisconsin three years later, and then we had our, our next two children in the sixties and we, uh, were in a civilian hospital. But again, no dads were in the delivery

Speaker 2: 34:04

Rooms, even in the even. So when I was born, so Carrie, my older, my next older sister, she was born in Madison, just like me. So it's Julie, Amy Carey. My so listeners, I have three older sisters. These are the three older sisters. And then I came along and we were in a civilian hospital, but dad still wasn't there.

Speaker 5: 34:20

No, no, isn't that the weirdest thing, but it was, it was not uncommon for us. So that's what we had. Then when we were back in Madison, we did have a support system,

Speaker 2: 34:29

Right? So where you're from,

Speaker 5: 34:30

That's where we were from. So when we drove back from California with those two little girls who were one in three, I remember driving into the driveway and said to my mom, here's your grandkids.<laugh> enough. Already

Speaker 2: 34:43

Take them<laugh>

Speaker 5: 34:44

But so, interesting thing when David was born in 1965,

Speaker 2: 34:48

That'd been me

Speaker 5: 34:49

As we were looking ahead to the, his due date, we said, well, it's just one day. We don't want him to be born. That was the day that Dick was writing his master's exam at 8:00 AM. Well, sure enough, David decided I'm first seven 20. He was born. And I said to the doc, go tell Dick to go. And he said, no, he won't go until he, he sees the two of you. So we had our first different gender child, which was pretty exciting. So Dick went flying off to take his exam at 8:00 AM. And after the exam, you talked to the, uh, professor and said, well, I've had quite a morning<laugh> and he said, well, if you didn't pass, we'll kind of give you another shot at it.

Speaker 2: 35:28

If you flunk to your master's exam.

Speaker 5: 35:30

Yeah. Which he did not. David had a lot of mothering with three older sisters.

Speaker 2: 35:35

I did. I, you know, that's I actually am very glad about that. You know, I had three older sisters, so I, I, that, I think that was helpful. That'd be helpful for a lot of guys. I didn't have a brother who beat me up, uh, or, or for me to like, you know, do that kind of stuff with, but I, I couldn't have asked for a better way to go than that. Yeah. Than to have, um, you know, three, uh, older sisters. Yeah. What was it like raising us? Okay. So here's what I remember. You know, I grew up, I was a little bit kind of, I'm not this way now, but I was a little introverted kind of nerdy kid. And I know it's really hard for people who know me now to, um, think that I was a nerd. I'm the poster child for nerds. Um, but growing up with three older sisters, I saw how they got in trouble or what they did. And I think then I didn't get in trouble.

Speaker 5: 36:16

That's absolutely right. David was never disciplined because he saw what the girls did, who were disciplined timeouts and that sort of thing.

Speaker 2: 36:24

I think Amy like went for two months without having bathroom privileges or something. Cuz she had done something. It's like, you don't get driving privileges. You're grounded for three months and you don't get to use the

Speaker 5: 36:32

Bathroom. Right. So David watched all that and thought, oh I'm not gonna do that. So David was really a model child, but he did something that's very interesting. He had a little clothes shoot in his bedroom and you could lift up the little door on it and you could dangle in there. So David did that one day. He was probably one and a half. And so all of a sudden the door gave away and he fell through the clothes, shoot into the basement

Speaker 2: 36:56

And yeah, I fell onto a concrete floor, about 10 feet under my head.

Speaker 5: 36:59

And Amy was hysterical. She was saying, David fell out, David fell out. And I went running outside. He wasn't outside. Where is he? Well, he fell into the basement called the doctor. And he said, if his pupils are, are not, not dilated, he'll probably be fine. He didn't hit,

Speaker 2: 37:12

They didn't even have me come in to be seen.

Speaker 5: 37:14

No. So they just said you had no marks on him. And he was just looking up like, oh, how did

Speaker 2: 37:19

I get here? I'm gonna guarantee you. They would've had, if, if a kid falls 10 feet through a floor onto a concrete basement floor at one and a half, they would probably have you come in and have that kid checked out. Probably, maybe that explains a lot about me is that I bunked my melon when I was one and a half. Okay. So

Speaker 5: 37:34

Let's talk, I have wondered about

Speaker 2: 37:35

That. Yeah. We have wonder, let's talk about parenting over the years. So what do you, what do you think about how things have changed? What do you seen because, and I'll just tell this is you're you're in your mid eighties now, what was it like? What's the difference?

Speaker 5: 37:47

I think with when you kids were little, the climate was so different. Kids could play outside and just be free and you didn't worry about them. So there was a lot of playing outside that was in my youth. And as well as in yours, you just would go and play and come back in a while. And I don't think kids get to do that anymore. We play at hopscotch and jump rope and marbles. And I don't see kids doing that anymore, which is really unfortunate. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and of course I think all these computer games are not the best thing for kids. I think they should play with each other more. And we have been so fortunate. We have nine beautiful grandchildren and now this wonderful, great, great, great grandchild. And I'm gonna be emotional, who is the family baby that we just adore. And so I think our racing of our children was very fun for Dick and me. We loved it. I loved being a, I loved being pregnant and I loved having the children and we wanted to have our children young so that we could be a younger grandparents. And fortunately that worked out well for us. And we just adore these nine grandchildren who are five of them in town and four of them are in other states, uh, and having this new great grandchild is absolutely the best for our family. Talk to me

Speaker 2: 38:58

About what that feels like. So we've heard from Mandy, the mother of your great grandson, what's that whole generational thing like to feel that there's this four month old person who is your, um, your great grandson.

Speaker 5: 39:12

I think that you think about the years just flying by. I feel like we just had our children and now look at you are 56 years old and Julie's 64 and now this new baby, it seems like the lifespan is just condensing and it's going faster and faster and faster. And I feel very blessed and fortunate to have, uh, had our four children living in the same city with us. Now we are loving having those experiences together with you and your children. So our life is really

Speaker 2: 39:44

Fine. I love having my three sisters are on too. It's really nice to have that. A lot of families are, are rather scattered. Um, and I, I think that having that multi-generational event, we were just together for Easter just, um, a little bit ago and we had four generations, um, in the same room. And that, that is really, really special. Um, I have been asking all of the moms on here about, you know, we've talked about birth experiences and the other question I've been asking everybody, what advice, what advice do you give moms of, of any age?

Speaker 5: 40:14

I think it's really important that the couple keep, uh, a hold of the things that brought them together in the first place, regular date nights, don't just be so absorbed with your children, that you lose sight of who you are as a couple mm-hmm<affirmative>. And I think that's important when you have little babies and as it is your whole life, I think you need that autonomy. And I think that you really need to have time together to love what you loved.

Speaker 2: 40:40

Mm-hmm<affirmative> I can vouch for that. There is one marriage in the world today that I look to as the role model marriage, and that's yours, you know, my own mom and dads, that's the role model marriage. That's the one you want. Everybody is my mom and dad. Now dad's not here, you know, he's but hopefully he's listening to that. And it, it is absolutely model marriage of two people who a love each other and do their own thing and live their own lives, but are exceptionally, uh, uh, present for all these generations to come. And so that is, um, there is no wiser person on the podcast than mom here. So thank you. Thank you. Love you so much. And thank you for being, thank you. On the episode today. I'm sure there, we, uh, um, I'm sure people are gonna, there's a lot of people listening who are gonna remember that, that style of childbirth and that parenting, and, and then there are gonna be many other people who listen to the newer, uh, moms today. And of course you have the best dad in the world. So of course I do. Of course I do. Yeah, you are the best son. Thank you so much. Well, thank you for being here, mom and listeners. Thank you for joining us for this episode. I do want to alert everybody to some wonderful services and support systems for new moms and families that are available at Hennepin healthcare at Hennepin, we have an incredible trio of teams to help women in childbirth. We have an obstetrics and gynecology department. We have a family medicine department and we have a terrific nurse midwifery program so that your childbirth experience can be what you want it to be. Also for new moms, dads, families, same sex couples, single parents. We have the red leaf center for family healing. The red leaf center is dedicated to supporting new parents, whether that be with your mental health, with your mood issues, with parenting skills, even about things around cooking and nutrition and childcare group sessions, individual sessions, there is a wealth of resources available to new parents at the red leaf center for family healing. You can check all of these out@hennepinhealthcare.org. I wanna thank all of you for listening to this episode, and I especially want to thank my three guests today. BOLO Diallo, young Mandy Hoffman and Joan Hilton for giving us their wisdom about motherhood. If there's one common theme of this whole episode, is that it really truly does take a village to raise a child. Thank you for listening. I hope you'll join us next time. And in the meantime, be healthy and be well.

Speaker 1: 43:16

Thanks for listening to the healthy matters podcast with Dr. David Hilton. For more information on healthy matters or to browse the archive, visit our website@healthymatters.org. And if you have a question or comment for the doctor, email us@healthymattersathcmed.org, or give us a call at six one two eight seven three. Talk, finally, if you enjoyed this podcast and would like to support us, please leave us a review and share the healthy matters podcast with your friends and family. The healthy matters podcast is made possible by Hennepin healthcare in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and engineered by John Lucas at highball executive producers are Jonathan Camuto and Christine Hill. Please remember we can only give general medical advice during this program. And every case is unique. We urge you to consult with your personal physician. If you have more serious or pressing health concerns until next time, be healthy and be well.